May 26th, 2005

some letters - What is NO! to a flying parrot

From: "shanlung9" <>
Date: Thu May 26, 2005 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: Now Aversive Conditioning; Was: Not too shabby...Real questions for us/ALL shanlung9
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Hi Mona,


They are, in your words, "incredibly cognizant of the difference
between a squrt bottle and YOU!"

If they have a great relationship with you, use of aversive
conditioning can even be said as essential for a balanced amicable
relationship. That goes without saying that their personal character
must be considered. If you have a timid parrot to start with, no
aversive conditioning must be done.

Not that we went to be 'alpha' over them. But if you have a very
active and daring fid who love to explore and push the limits of what
they can do, you do need to let them know in no uncertain terms what
is not desired, but without hurting them.

'NO' is understood better by them then we may think. Their
interpretation of NO may be different at times.

How many of us have taken 'NO' at face value at all times even though
we clearly know what that word meant?

We may think 'ah! that surely do not apply to me at this time' or '
that must be a joke!'. They are smart, they are intelligent. That
may well be what attracted us to them in the first place.

Tinkerbell bite my buttons off my shirt even though I have said 'No
buttons' a thousand times to her. She heed only my hand pushing her
beak off. Then when I removed my hand, she remove half the button.

Warmest regards


--- In, "Douglas Delgado"
<dougandmona@m...> wrote:
> Rex wrote:
> "Of course, but if an aversive stimulus causes a bird to avoid you
> stimulus is not being used appropriately. For example, like Shan
> and others, I use a squirt bottle to interrupt some behaviors. Most
> the time merely picking up the bottle is enough, and even if the
bird is
> squirted it often flys to me. Why? Probably because I react
> to what the bird is doing NOW -- flying to me -- and not what it was
> doing a moment ago."
> or...another explanation, the bird associates the aversive as part
of the
> environment. They don't see it as we do, as punishment coming from
> punishing heirarchy. They see it as stimulus that they just avoid
and then
> they go on with their life - no big deal at all because they can
avoid it -
> the way we see aversives in a video game. In fact, they might
find the
> adrenaline rush is fun and seek it out. IMHO, parrots are
> cognizant of the difference between a squrt bottle and YOU!
> Thanks.
> Mona in Seattle
> Phinneus Fowl (aka Phinney) TAG
> Pretty Rita Cockatiel
> Babylon (Senegal Poicephalus)
> Doug (spousal unit)

some letters - on tethers and stone wall

From: "shanlung9" <>
Date: Thu May 26, 2005 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: Tethers shanlung9
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We need not worry so much about the flying to the end and the jerk.

In all the 'end of line' encounters with Tinkerbell, she just kind of
swivel onto a new direction. None of those 'hitting a brick wall'

I wondered over that before and decided it was a matter of applied

First of all, our arm holding the line, the line, and her body all have
a certain 'looseness' and give to them. The jerk is not an
abrupt 'hitting of brick wall'.

When they fly, their center of gravity , CG, is not and never will be
at the point of tether to the harness. To be more explicit, that CG
will be at the point of tether if that tether can be threaded
physically through the heart. The stop will then be abrupt, but then,
with the tether through the heart, you need not worry about her flying
fast or even flying at all.

That meant the CG is off-set away from the line. The point of
attachment of the tether to the harness acts as a hinge. So when the
end of line is reached, the body kind of rotate around onto a new

Tinkerbell knew it. There had been many times she deliberately flew to
the end of the line away from me to twist at the end to fly in big
circles a few times before returning back to me again.

Warmest regards


--- In, "Tana" <tana@u...> wrote:
> On 8 Apr 2005 at 11:17, Dorothy Schwarz wrote:
> >
> > As the bird flies to end of harness or tether it has a jerk and
falls to
> > ground.
> I don't fly Juba on a tether, but I would think as smart as these
> guys are, they would quickly learn, or maybe know without even
> trying, not to jerk on the tether.......probably like a trained dog
> knows not to pull the always leave some slack. Juba just
> plain doesn't try to fly when I take her out in a harness.
> Tana