shanlung (shanlung) wrote,

Should we give up trying to save the panda? //Jackie & wife & kitty/Jackie Mash Batch 1 & clicker


Should we give up trying to save the panda?

Above is a thought provoking article. Do try to find the time to read that. I do not agree with all that was written. But more of that later. I extract from above some of which I wholeheartedly agree on. In line with what I had written about the long term conservation of parrots and greys. That sustainable captures of wild birds should be legal and giving the locals living with those parrots a more meaningful sense of co existing with the wild parrots which allow them an income.

This came from above article

People living near these species all have to benefit as well. It's no use if the benefit from funding endangered species goes to just a few people at the top - it has to be transparent, which it often is not.

Solving problems on a local level is a start but if the demand for body parts is still there, it is only postponing the problem.

Emotional provocations are not enough. You have to have pragmatism. That may not be sexy, but it's the only effective answer.

So sending your money to those who campaigned for banning of wild caughts benefit only those who campaigned (or even said to campaign) and their bank accounts. Not the people living with the beasties and birdies. Who might well catch and cook the greys and sell the decapitated heads to people like that guy caught with 353 decapitated heads of CAGs.
Bird born in captivity & 353 heads // Meet Jackie

One part of that article I disagreed with, or rather one word that I took exception to is this

Anthropomorphic feelings, although understandable, don't always help. Animals don't have our emotions.

Anthorpomorphic is that word. In a birdie forum recently, I was attacked by another drama queen accusing me of that andthorpoaeiou word. for advocating we treat our beasties and birdies with respect and courtesy. Folks loved those multisyllabic words so much. Perhaps because using that, or more likely, copy and pasteing that word meant they proved they knew so much more.
A quick check into that drama queen history revealed that she was often lunged and chomped on by her birdies. Would that have surprised you? I think not. That did not surprise me at all. By eliminating the need to think of them as intelligent sentients meant it would be ok to do whatever you want to them.

So folks, if other tell you that you should not be andropoaeiou, feel sorry for that other. The chances will be he/she had been and will remain to be chomped and chomped on by his/her birdie. While continueing to mouth prodigious use of multi syllabic words to browbeat any others who suggest otherwise.

Hitler did the same. As did Pol Pot and all other genocidic maniac. By dehumanising the humans he did not want, it would be acceptable to him and his cohorts to send the dehumanised humans to the gas chambers, or killing fields.

And by treating other living sentients on this planet with us as less then what they are, we can send them to extinction as should we all think too much of them, we then be accused of being antrophoaeiou.

And as for beasties who cannot be androphoaeiou, do look at this interesting article on the BBC.

Chinese dog refuses to leave dead owner's graveside
A dog in China who was the only companion to a single resident has refused to leave him even after his death.

Lao Pan, 68, died earlier this month in the village of Panjiatun.

His dog was found later at his grave, refusing to leave even after seven days without food.

Beasties being androphoaeiou? I think that dog has more humanity than many other so-called humans, even if the doggie do not know what the hell anthorpomorphic is all about.


Jackie stuff & kitty/Jackie Mash Batch 1

My German friend Tiffani from was laughing at the mess Jackie still made in eating his mash.


I agreed that looked terrible. As I was sitting on the armchair next to the mash perch, I had to shield myself with that plastic A4 cover. I cut off the other side of the cover as I thought I had newspaper on the wall to catch the spill.

As with every thing that I did, that was prototype 1. Which lead back to drawing board and a better solution. Pictures speak better.





There was another benefit on shielding on both sides of the fruit mash bowl. The splatter collected on the plastic. After Jackie finished his mash, he would pick off the splatter on the plastic. And of course, I wash that plastic screen every evening.

Last weekend my wife had a go with Jackie in his flight room. Using small pieces of bread to tempt him to fly to her hand. Jackie still refused to eat from her hand. But Jackie was prepared to fly to her thigh to pick the bread. And flying off immediately.

My wife told me her camera was set at 30 frames per second rapid burst. Yet the speed of Jackie was such that it was difficult to capture him in flight unlike what you have seen of the sequential shots of Riamfada. I felt that must be related to the much faster metabolism of hill mynahs as against grey. Which was why Jackie at half the weight of Riamfada ate a lot more than Riamfada. And could fly so fast that even my wife had difficulty in getting flight shots of him.

Go see those sequential shots in flickr folder to see how fast Jackie moved between shots.






I was going to make a batch of kitty/Jackie mash. I needed to clear the earlier batch of mash so I decided to increase Jackie ration to see how the weight could be. And of course, he got small pieces of bread from me from time to time. He had to land on my hand to get the bread

12 Nov - 181 gm
13 Nov - 184
15 Nov - 185
16 Nov - 188
17 Nov - 190
18 Nov - 190

As he was reaching 190 grams, I noticed Jackie favourate pastime in between eating and pooping was to brood on top of his cage. I felt just sitting and brooding was not good for him. I then reduced his daily ration until I brought him down to 174 grams on 23 Nov. He was a lot more active and spritely at 174 grams. That weight was maintained on 40 grams of kitty-Jackie mash and 50 grams of fruit mash and 10 grams of wholemeal bread.

In last report, you seen I tried to keep two kinds of mash. And more often then not, mixed them up. You might wonder why when I wrote of my mistaking kitty mash for Jackie mash, why did I not just give that back to the kitties as Jackie would not eat that all up. The problem was that when I prepared for Jackie, I added chopped hot chilis to the mash, and obviously not ten grams by ten grams. Obviously, the kitties would not want what was left of their mash after chopped hot chilis were added even if Jackie relished that.

It was on 18 November Friday that the first batch of kitty-Jackie mash was made.

But first, a note of thanks to Mike Burton and his memory.

Kitty-Jackie mash is based on Tinkerbell Mash is based on the formula for Mike’s Manna Mash created and given to the world by my good friend Mike Burton. Mike is sadly no longer with us but never will be forgotten as long as people prepare his mash or Tinkerbell Mash.

All this is dedicated to Mike Burton. A friend who left us all too soon and
gave the world Mike's Manna Mash and on which Tinkerbell Mash in all its forms
has been based.

Original Mikes Manna Mash recipe here
The memory of Mike will live on in every bit of Mike's Manna Mash or Tinkerbell
Mash or kitty-Jackie mash regardless of the batch or who made it or feed on it.

Two days before that, the beans and corn were soaked for 8 hours to start the germinating and then drained of all water. They were soaked a few minutes and washed periodically until cooking.

Full complete details of mash cooking should be referred to in
Morning with Harry & the decision// Sultan of Oman Palace// Tinkerbell Mash Batch 7

Kitty-Jackie mash consisted of

1 measure (40 grams) of soybeans
1 measure (40 grams) of kidney beans
1 measure (40 grams) of garbonzo beans
1 measure (40 grams) of pinto beans
1 measure (40 grams) of blackeye beans
2 measure (80 grams) of Great Northern white beans
1 measure (40 grams) of red beans
1 measure (40 grams) of green beans
1 measure (40 grams) of black beans
1 measure (40 grams) of lima beans
1 measure (100 grams)of corn
1 measure (40 grams) of peas
1 measure (100 grams) of human grade groundnuts(peanuts)

1 measure (140 grams) of quinoa
1 measure (140 grams) of brown crushed barley
1 measure (70 grams) of brown glutinious rice (ran out of this)
1 measure (140 grams) of brown rice
1 measure (140grams) of brown rolled oats
1 measure (140 grams) of brown rolled wheat berries
( I decided to use more cereal. Just my choice. I liked crushed or rolled grains )

6 measure (660 grams) of sweet potatoes grated (thereabout)
6 measure (660 grams) of carrots grated (thereabout)

2 tablespoon of wheat germ

200 grams of dried anchovies
400 grams of mince chicken.





I parboiled the sweet potatoes and carrots for 5 minutes and cooled them for handling. I find grating parboiled sweet potatoes and carrots to be a lot easier.

All the beans & corn were brought to boil together with peanuts for about 5 minutes to parboil them. After cooling that, they all went into the blender to liquidise them. They were then placed into pot and water added to allow them to boil nicely and boiled for another 10 minutes or so. Part of that was cooled to add to blender to blend 200 grams of dried anchovies for the protein and the calcium.

Part of that liquidised bean mash soup taken out to mix in the grated sweet potatoes carrots , the chicken mince, 3 tablespoon of wheat germ.

They all got back into the pot and boiled. Just enough water added to allow boiling. Then all the quinoa and cereals were added when boiling was good and strong. Stirred well for a minute or so until it got difficult to stir. Fire turned off and they left to cook themselves.

Chicken cost me Sing$4 for 400 grams. Dried anchovies $2 for 200 grams. Sweet potatoes and carrots cost Sing$2. I reckoned about $5 for the beans and cereals.

I got 7kg of mash for under Sing$15 All into 19 baggies in the freezer. Which should last the kitties and Jackie 35 days with kitties getting 160 grams/day and Jackie 40 grams/day.

You know the kitties get for dinner
160 grams of mash
50 grams of chicken or pork or beef raw mince
20 grams of dried anchovies
15 grams of chopped wheat grass
80 grams of wet cat food
20 grams of kitty kibble (wife insisted , but which I forget at times)
All above very thoroughly mixed together.

And Jackie 40 grams would have hot chilis chopped into it.

You seen and known how the mash was made. The best food and yet the least expensive food for your birdie.

Jackie coming to me was fated. Truly fated. I had wanted a Java Hill Mynah. If I had known Jackie was a Greater Indian Hill Mynah, I would not have given him a second look. But fate is quirky. Since he is with me, he will remain for better or for worse until he keeled over from too much Vitamin C , or not enough tea, or the day we part.

If he is not to remain forever in the flight room, he had to graduate. Which meant he had to be friendly enough with me to step on me just to gooey eye me and fly to me when cued.

I had hoped that he would decide he could be friends with me. I rather than be sooner than later.

Over the past couple of weeks, he would fly to me. But only if I hold up a tiny piece of bread. He would fly to my hand only and only if the other hand hold that piece of bread. And on landing, he landed long enough to snatch that bread and fly off to top of cage to eat. Or on landing, he would eat from the mash bowl and flew off immediately after.

I was just a movable perch for his food. At least better for me than my wife.

I did go to his flight room to read a book from that splendid series of Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin by Patrick O'Brian, a very addictive series. I bought a couple of that cheaply from a closing down sale of Borders. And then I was hooked and haunting bookshops for rest of the books from that series. In between playing one minute bullet chess at Playchess or on my cycle rides or swimming. I was not in his flight room all the time.

At least Jackie did not fly in panic when I entered. He watched me but remained aloof. I could approach him if I move slowly. If he saw I did not have bread, he would then fly a short distance away.

Perhaps this kind of relationship might change only very very slowly. Gooey eyeing him moved at too slow a pace. We had to interact for him much more if I am not to remain at nothing but a perch for him for food.

So today it started.

Today I started conditioning the clicker. I clicked and then, a while later, offer him a piece of bread. That happened at sporadic timings. (see down the page for clicker training)

This is done to let him know the click is a good sound. And to introduce him to a delay before the food. That the anticipation of the treat, and the second or two wait, is ok. Not just to treat me like a perch for his treats or food.

LiBai mash making.
About 300 grams of beef mince, with 200 grams of chicken mince and 150 grams of dried anchovies(for the calcium). That was all done up to the kitty mash formula I wrote about in
Pakistan//Tinkerbell Kitty Mash//Dommie at the beach Ramadhan 2010 //Villa walkabout 2
Instead of the almond and brazil nuts, about 100 grams of human grade groundnuts(peanuts) were used.

Making of Tinkerbell Mash
Morning with Harry & the decision// Sultan of Oman Palace// Tinkerbell Mash Batch 7

suri - Read "Conditioning clicker day 3 - and some tips on suris"

milli - read "Found the perfect treat and Yingshiong first "step up""

if you forgotten about clicker training

Tinkerbell Legacy - VH parrot and Clicker Training Rant 06

Some thoughts on clicker - The initial experience with Tinkerbell

Clicker training and bonding with Tinkerbell

To Shanlung-Charlie and clicker training

Charlie and clicker training - beyond touch target //LiBai on finger and in slow motion videos —


(edited on 4th November 2011 to include below)

To Shanlung - How to do Free Flight Outside

If what I wrote help you and you like to help, give a thought
for the wildlife sharing our planet.
Do write that cheque to Gerald Durrell wildlife trust

I am a life member of Durrell Wildlife Conservation Trust. Do join us to do
whatever we can for the wildlife that shared our planet.
or to any wildlife conservation body of your choice

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